Journals of the Senate
47 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1998, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 97
Thursday, November 26, 1998
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Poy, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Gustafson, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, *Johnstone, Joyal, *Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, *Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, *Phillips, Poy, Prud'homme, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, St. Germain, Simard, Sparrow, Spivak, Stewart, Stollery, Stratton, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan,
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Third reading of Bill C-25, An Act to amend the National Defence Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended.The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maloney, that the Bill, as amended, be read the third time.
The Honourable Senator Nolin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Order No. 2 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting. Consideration of the Seventh Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry (budget-study on the present state and the future of agriculture in Canada), presented in the Senate on November 19, 1998.The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, that the Report be adopted.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 3 and 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 39, 46, 44, 15, 34 (inquiries), 1 (other), 88 (motion), 42, 23 and 41 (inquiries), were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Meighen, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kirby:That the Senate urges the Government, in the February 1998 Budget, to propose an amendment to the Income Tax Act that would increase to 30%, by increments of 2% per year over a five-year period, the foreign property component of deferred income plans (pension plans, registered retirement savings plans and registered pension plans), as was done in the period between 1990 to 1995 when the foreign property limit of deferred income plans was increased from 10% to 20%, because:
(a) Canadians should be permitted to take advantage of potentially better investment returns in other markets, thereby increasing the value of their financial assets held for retirement, reducing the amount of income supplement that Canadians may need from government sources, and increasing government tax revenues from retirement income;
(b) Canadians should have more flexibility when investing their retirement savings, while reducing the risk of those investments through diversification;
(c) greater access to the world equity market would allow Canadians to participate in both higher growth economies and industry sectors;
(d) the current 20% limit has become artificial since both individuals with significant resources and pension plans with significant resources can by-pass the current limit through the use of, for example, strategic investment decisions and derivative products; and
(e) problems of liquidity for pension fund managers, who now find they must take substantial positions in a single company to meet the 80% Canadian holdings requirement, would be reduced.After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Eyton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lynch-Staunton, seconded by the Honourable Senator Berntson:
That a Special Committee of the Senate be appointed to examine and report on the manner in which the chain of command of the Canadian Forces both in-theatre and at National Defence Headquarters, responded to the operational, disciplinary, decision-making and administrative problems encountered during the Somalia deployment to the extent that these matters have not been examined by the Commission of Inquiry into the Deployment of Canadian Forces to Somalia;
That the Committee in examining these issues may call witnesses from whom it believes it may obtain evidence relevant to these matters including but not limited to:
1. former Ministers of National Defence;
2. the then Deputy Minister of National Defence;
3. the then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of National Defence;
4. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell);
5. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J. Dixon);
6. the persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period;
7. the then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation); and
8. the then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff.
That seven Senators, nominated by the Committee of Selection act as members of the Special Committee, and that three members constitute a quorum;
That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers and records, to examine witnesses under oath, to report from time to time and to print such papers and evidence from day to day as may be ordered by the Committee;
That the Committee have power to authorize television and radio broadcasting, as it deems appropriate, of any or all of its proceedings;
That the Committee have the power to engage the services of such counsel and other professional, technical, clerical and other personnel as may be necessary for the purposes of its examination;
That the political parties represented on the Special Committee be granted allocations for expert assistance with the work of the Committee;
That it be empowered to adjourn from place to place within and outside Canada;
That the Committee have the power to sit during sittings and adjournments of the Senate;
That the Committee submit its report not later than one year from the date of it being constituted, provided that if the Senate is not sitting, the report will be deemed submitted on the day such report is deposited with the Clerk of the Senate; and
That the Special Committee include in its report, its findings and recommendations regarding the structure, functioning and operational effectiveness of National Defence Headquarters, the relationship between the military and civilian components of NDHQ, and the relationship among the Deputy Minister of Defence, the Chief of Defence Staff and the Minister of National Defence,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Forrestall, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the motion be amended by adding in paragraph 2 the following:
"9. the present Minister of National Defence.".After debate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Adams, that further debate on the motion in amendment be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Gustafson moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Andreychuk:That, notwithstanding the Order of the Senate adopted on November 18, 1997, to examine matters relating to the present state and future of agriculture in Canada, the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be empowered to present its final report no later than June 30, 1999; and
That the Committee be permitted, notwithstanding usual practices, to deposit its report with the Clerk of the Senate, if the Senate is not then sitting; and that the report be deemed to have been tabled in the Chamber.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
_____________________________________________
With leave, The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, December 1, 1998, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Nunavut Implementation Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the Nunavut Act, S.C. 1993, c. 28, s. 67.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-929.Reports of the Nunavut Implementation Commission for 1997, pursuant to the Nunavut Act, S.C. 1993, c. 28, s. 67.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-930.
Report of the British Columbia Treaty Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998, pursuant to the British Columbia Treaty Commission Act, S.C. 1995, c. 45, sbs. 21(3). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-931.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Mercier:That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
_____________________________________________
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and TechnologyThe name of the Honourable Senator Di Nino substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Cohen (November 23).
The name of the Honourable Senator Cohen substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Di Nino (November 25).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Rompkey substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Pépin (November 26).